IN CONVERSATION
WITH
STOL COLLECTIVE
STOL COLLECTIVE
While we were molding the masks for the pigeons to peck on, I sat down with Stol Collective to discuss the origins of their practice and the philosophy driving their artistic endeavors. In this dialogue, we explored how they transact ideas, inspiration, and creative energy, as well as the objectives that shape their engagement with both human and more-than-human communities. This conversation offers a deeper insight into the processes behind their work, revealing the collective's commitment to fostering new ways of relating to the world and those we share it with.
TEODORA: Mention one project made by a person in the collective that you appreciate.
IOANA: Let me start. I really like the book that Marco made recently. In general, I like Marco's work a lot lately. I mean, I liked it all the time, but I like the vision that is developing now and I think this book grasps this vision really well.
MARCO: I understand, and this new vision, speaking of transaction, is influenced by working here in the studio.
MARA: I liked the technique that Anio did when we just started in this studio. She started to make objects with wax poured in water and I liked it.
MARCO: I liked Mara's graduation project, Hay Fever. More than the individual works, I liked the fact that there was a strong feeling of connection between the works. I mean, I understood very clearly how they were connected. And I liked that a lot. And about Ioana, again the Graduation project, I liked a lot that the stop-motion was made with objects found somewhere. There is a museum of communist antiquities in Timisoara and the stop-motion was made with objects found there. Which I find very cool, because it has this thing of meeting the outside, which I find important in art, as a response to the tendency to be the artist locked in himself, who works out of his own madness.
ANIO: I find it important that she went outside the comfort zone to do it. I mean, she went alone in Timișoara, in a new place, she had to ask for help. I also wanted to talk about their graduation projects, but more through the prism of the fact that a lot of people say that they confuse you and confuse your work. And I think that even if you use the same mediums, you have reached a moment in which you are very different individuals and you have a very different practice from my point of view. I think that you are completely different and this is very visible in the installations you made at the end of college.
TEODORA: So, how did the collective form in the first place?
IOANA: I think that, actually, the idea of creating a collective started before we moved back to Romania. It was a very old idea, somehow. I remember this moment, when we were sitting at the table and you were visiting us in England. You told me it’d be super cool if me and Mara came back to Romania and started doing something together with you and Anio.
MARCO: Oh yeah, that was it. I had a discussion with Anio, that it would be cool to do this thing together. After that, we were going to the UK and I was thinking, how do I introduce this to the girls as a cool alternative, because I knew you were finishing college and were in that moment of, “ok, I finished college, what do I do now?” And somehow, I didn't want to put pressure either, but at the same time, I wanted to make a convincing case.
MARA: And at that point, I was talking to Marco and I was like “I don't know, I cannot be committed, because I don't know if I want to go back in the first place”. I didn't know if I wanted to go back to Romania,. but, I ended up returning.… It’s a very family thing, in a way. I mean, Marco and Anio have been together for a long time and, naturally, started collaborating on projects, Ioana and I were working together anyway, and me and Marco are brothers.
IOANA: We are also friends. It was very organic.
MARA: That's how it was formed. And, after that, we talked about making an association so we could get funds. And we did that. When we did the project “Here was once a field”, we didn't have the association yet.
MARCO: But, later we included it in this framework, as being a project made by us as a collective. When we started, we just did it, like a collaboration between artists.
MARA: And Ioana and I both had a duo, it was called Hora, which we somehow dissolved when we made Stol, because we didn’t want to create confusion.
IOANA: I mean, it didn't make sense anymore. Who Mara and I are, who Stol is, who each individual is, is a bit confusing.
TEODORA: And, why Stol?
IOANA: We were thinking of something that would involve this idea of togetherness.
MARA: Yes, and we liked Stol because it makes a reference to animals, and we kind of had this interest in the non-human. And, we also liked that it has something to do with migration, this idea of crossing borders. Migration is something that unites us, as we all have this experience of people who have moved out and then returned to Romania. And, how can I say, this going back and forth. That's why Stol was better than other group names, because it was related to movement. We had an option to use Cuib, but it had a different connotation, it’s something you’re nesting in, it’s a more closed thing, somehow. The movement is better.
TEODORA: What are your main sources of inspiration and how do they manifest in your projects?
MARA: It seems to me that we are all interested in many things. I mean, we're people who can be interested in anything, I guess. But, clearly each of us has some preferences. We’ve ended up doing a lot of things that have to do with ecology and the non-human somehow, because we are all interested in it. Ioana and I especially use this as a theme in our art practice. Marco is very interested in marginalized people, which somehow connects quite well with the non-human, in the sense that it's about this human ideal, and after that, it's everything that exists outside, which is animalized, somehow...
MARCO: Yes, or examples of failures, of unfulfilled desires.. In the ecology aspect, you have the natural ecosystems, but after that, you also have all the bureaucratic and technological infrastructures, which create repopulation breeders, or preservation laws, or systems for people to decide that the ecosystem is worth preserving. For example, when we did the project with dogs, I thought it was curious that the field on the outskirts of Bucharest is considered a non-ecosystem, that is a “free space”, which, in fact, does not exist. There is no free space, there is an environment, there are certain species, plants, non-human populations, but somehow from this human perspective is not seen in this way.
MARA: Even though, now, our working method is still developing, I think it has a clear anthropological aspect, in the sense that we're always looking to meet other people, to go to locations, and understand something about a story from a particular place, and then respond in diverse, creative ways. With Marco, it's more straightforward, because he really is into documentary material, but he still transposes it afterwards into a personal universe. I mean, it's not that kind of classic documentary.
MARCO: Yes, it's not photojournalism. But, I think that going there, actually, that's a point that really unites us, that going there is important for everyone.
IOANA: Personally, I feel I come more from the perspective of the non-human, animals, non-human animals. I mean, I feel like that's the driving force.
TEODORA: Then, let's talk about transactions.
IOANA: It seems to me that the whole transaction concept can be very easily put into an ecological framework, because any ecology is full of transactions. It's actually a system of relationships, sort of. And relationships of exchange. The most interesting thing about the transaction term is that it's generally seen with this negative framework, and clearly monetary in a way. When, at the same time, when you apply it to any other framework, like an ecological one, and you see how transactions help the functioning of a system, really.
ANIO: And, I also find the idea of parasitic relationships or symbiotic relationships very interesting to be explored.
MARA: Yes, and also there is this perspective that if you think about love, you have the idea of unconditional love, where it's not conditioned by anything... You give without receiving, basically. But really, my perspective is that there is no relationship and no situation where you can give without receiving something. Because, everything you do gives you something. And from this perspective, everything is transactional down to the tiniest detail. Everything down to the cellular level is transactional. And, somehow, you can see transaction as this way of thinking where you and your body are always open to transaction, just by breathing and existing in a space. You're always making a trade.
TEODORA: Even Oxygen for CO2.
MARA: Exactly, yes.
MARCO: There’s also this thing… in order to take pictures of someone, you have to give something. And, most of the time, it's not money, although I like to give money sometimes. But mostly, it seems to me that it plays on this level of offering listening and understanding, which is somehow a rather scarce resource. And, if you can offer that authentically, you can also take pictures. And I know that this is a hot topic, I know that it could be seen as exploitative, and it can be, and it often is. But, at the same time, I believe in this way of working and believe that it has strength, so to speak. I mean there are people who are really extremely not heard and I think it's a nice exchange.
TEODORA: And how do you trade ideas and inspiration in a collective?
MARA: I think that the studio is the starting point. If you have this method of working in the same space, it's inevitable that everyone is going to be very... I mean, we're like sponges and we all absorb a lot of influences from each other. And slowly, by having this space, a kind of ecosystem of the collective is actually created in which we begin to understand what we can do together, and what others are doing. But, it's clearly a process.
IOANA: And it's quite an unconscious, and very organic, process. That’s the most interesting part, that you're not actively doing anything. You just spend time with these people, and at some point, you keep getting closer and closer, and your practices keep coming closer.
MARA: And after, decisions have to be made sometimes. For example, what project are we doing? It's good if we all agree. Sometimes we disagree, of course. But usually, we kind of agree.
MARCO: Yes, it seems to me that oftentimes the good decision is obvious, somehow.
MARA: And, you always have to let others express themselves at certain times. But these are very unconscious things. I don't think we have any rules of operation...
ANIO: It’s also somewhat voluntary, because, for example, if someone wants to know how to do, I don't know, some type of photography, you have Marco there and you can ask him.
MARA: Yes, there is a lot of power in having a number of people. You can simply do more things, there are more tasks to delegate. And you can learn, you always have someone to talk to, and someone to bounce off ideas with.
ANIO: And in our case, the idea of interdisciplinarity seems very important to me. That is, we are a number of people who have different knowledge, but we somehow overlap in matters of interest and things we want to do. So, we have the capability of creating more diverse things trading the tasks on hand, based on our skills.
MARCO: Of course, interdisciplinarity is super contemporary as an art practice, but it's also very difficult to do as a single person, to know many mediums very well, to really understand all of them.
TEODORA: Did the fact that you work in a group influence your personal practices?
MARCO: It influenced me quite a lot.
IOANA: I don't necessarily know if it’s because we work in a collective, but because we have this space. Again, the fact that we spend a lot of time together, you see certain things and feel inspired on a personal level as well.
MARCO: Somehow, I saw that, in the studio, we also have this mechanism that, when someone does something, they immediately receive feedback from others, and there is also this hyping-up mechanism, you know. I mean, it seems to me that it's an environment where it's easy to develop a kind of confidence in what you’re doing.
IOANA: I feel like I isolate myself when I do something personal.
MARA: Yes, somehow I also try to separate myself a little if I want to do something personal, because the room is definitely contagious. And, this is interesting because you also explore what the individual means within the collective. And, the fact that the whole space is so important to the collective, what does it mean when you have to do something individually in this space? It's a bit complicated sometimes.
TEODORA: And, a valuable lesson you learned from this teamwork?
IOANA: I think about how stressed I get when I work on things alone, and how much it helps to know that there are some people out there that you can rely on. I don't know if that's a valuable lesson, but it's definitely something I've learned. And that everything will be ok. That we are doing something, after all.
MARCO: It’s also emotional. I don't know, or at least for me. For example, I noticed that when we are in a collective, it is easier for me to be bold. Or at least, I feel less intimidated by the situations we have to deal with.
MARA: This is because you no longer have to assume things yourself, you’re doing it anonymously somehow. You become part of the collective and you are not the only one in the world to assume something, which can be scary sometimes. To assume something by yourself, and to assume the possible..
IOANA: …failure.
MARA: Yes. It is easier for you to assume failure as part of the collective. Together. It is true. But think about it, that us.. I mean Marco and I and Anio also live together. It is a relationship that works on many levels. Marco and Anio have been together for 6-7 years. I’ve known Ioana for 12 years now. I mean, it is a very intense thing, we’ve been very entangled for a long time.
TEODORA: But you never argue?
MARA: We just argued in the morning.
MARCO: We’re not joking.
TEODORA: How do you solve these conflicts when they appear?
MARCO: We reconcile. For example, I often yell at Mara. And often, Mara yells at me. And just as often, we apologize after 5 minutes.
TEODORA: How do you balance your voice on a personal level, with the expectations of the art world, or the public?
MARCO: We realize that the sphere we’ve chosen to work in as a collective is very fresh and new in Romania. I don't know about you, but I have total confidence that we are doing what we said we would do and that it will be good. Right?
MARA: I feel that there is a lot of openness towards what we do and this makes me believe that it will be good, that we don't have to worry and that there is no need for expectations. I don't know how to explain it. And actually, one thing that should be mentioned is funding. When you apply for funding, there is a certain type of project preferred. Projects that are oriented towards the outside world.
ANIO: You have to dress the project.
MARA: Yes, and you have to dress it in this utilitarian framework and explain why your project will have a positive social impact. So, anything you do with funding has to have a social agenda, because it is somehow connected with the European Union. And when you work with the state, there is always this element, art with a positive impact, art that has to have..
MARCO:…a political agenda.
MARA: Yes. In a way, a low-key political thing. This is another thing, as an association, we can't do something that is too obscene. We can't do something that is too directly political. Because…
ANIO: To have a political agenda is illegal.
MARA: If we are talking about some constraints, these are the constraints. There is a certain facade that you have to keep in this legal context, when you work with the state.
IOANA: You have to be more aware of how you are perceived.
MARA: Especially by people from outside the art world.
IOANA: More family friendly.
ANIO: To be peachy.
TEODORA: It’s interesting, because you are working in this social area of the politics of ecology..
MARA: It can be political, but not directly political. Not attached to any political figure. You can do it with political nuances. Because anyway..
IOANA: You can't avoid this. You can’t isolate it completely..
MARCO: Anyway, the discourse in Romania, or probably in any country around the globe, with some exceptions, is that ecology is good, save the planet. So, any work you do in this area is political, but everyone agrees on the discourse level.
MARA: There is also a preferred agenda in the art world. But, we as people align well with this agenda. I mean, we are socially aware, we like ecology, these are very favored things in the art world.
MARCO: Maybe it's another thing to say that this is related to works that can be sold and works that cannot be sold.
MARA: Because when we rely on funds, we are no longer interested in the commercial part. That's why we opted for funds, so that we can detach ourselves from the need to sell.
TEODORA: Which is very important, because you no longer need to be part of a commercial circuit, and you can focus more on this social goal of yours. I mean, it's clear from your projects, this recurrence of themes and messages that you bring up. But, do they also come from a more personal vision of life in general? For example, I started studying the arts in this anthropocentric scene after I left advertising, because I became so saturated by the abusiveness of the industry and the way I came to see it as an exploitative circle. Even though I was fascinated, at first, by this “art” of manipulation, I realized that it's not in tune with what I am militating against in this life, that my core principles and the way I see life, it was in active conflict with what I was doing.
MARCO: I thought about becoming a fashion photographer a long time ago, and I did some fashion shoots, and I really liked the process, but the goal is to sell clothes, which is not my passion… I mean, I really like the images, but I don't know if I'm really concerned with this idea of selling clothes. And, that's why I moved away from it. At some point I thought that if you want to make a difference in the world, maybe it's better to become a policymaker. But, I don't think I would have been happy as a policymaker. And then, this area of art appears, where you meet with a context of society, you self-express, but you also try to introduce some perspectives that may be useful for others, for the world you live in.
MARA: This is also a form of advertisement. It's an advertisement for ideas. Ideas that seem valuable to you.
TEODORA: This is very fascinating for me, because even though I’m still interested and working as a director of photography, when I started my master’s degree, I had this feeling that being a director of photography is something very selfish that doesn’t make sense. But, as I studied art and became interested in becoming a curator and artist with this very ecological stance, having in mind the idea that I would try to change the world, I realized that even as an artist you’re not totally selfless.
ALL: No, it's even more selfish.
TEODORA: Why does working with the non-human come so naturally to you, and especially animals?
IOANA: For me, it's so simple, because I've always liked animals and I've been fascinated by the natural world since I was little.
MARA: I also liked animals very much and I was a big activist in the animal area.
IOANA: We always had contact with animals. I mean, at home, at one point, my parents had 3 cats and 6 dogs. I found about 5 puppies in a box when I was little and brought them home and said that we had to adopt them. They were adopted by the whole street, somehow, and they became street dogs. I feel that that moment had a very big impact on me, because I was like, wow, I can save a life, somehow.
MARA: There's another thing that I think is very relevant for all four of us, that, let's say, people from more western countries have encounters with animals in rather controlled places. We grew up with packs of dogs on the street. Since you're a child, you have to learn how to relate, how to learn their behavior, their body language, and sometimes they can be a real danger. Romania is a country that has a lot of wilderness, animals, I mean, so it's a very good context to talk about the non-human, and to explore this, because people still have contact with animals, compared to more developed countries, where the animals have been kind of eliminated, where wilderness doesn't exist at all.
MARCO: Yes. For example, in Holland, nature exists very comfortably, in a totally tamed context. In Romania, there are a lot of points of tension.
ANIO: What interests me the most is the relationship we have with animals in the built environment, or how we define space for animals. Because in countries like Holland, there is bicycle infrastructure, but the animal infrastructure is still very underdeveloped.
MARCO: There were those bricks..
ANIO: Yes, in Holland you are obliged to place these bricks, that are empty on the interior, to host the birds and bats. In fact, I think it's a European policy. But, there are only very small steps that have been taken for animal integration.
TEODORA: And what is the goal of your team?
MARCO: It’s this idea of intersections between us and the outside world, intersections between disciplines, between species, and how this can materialize in projects.... But, another goal is the fact that there is this opportunity to do this thing together, because if anyone wants to form a team with whom to create and to make projects, it's hard, it's very hard. I mean, it takes time, trust is gained over time.
MARA: Yes, but I don't think everyone starts a team in a systematic way. I mean, almost everyone starts a team because they already have someone to work with.
MARCO: And to have someone to work with is an opportunity to say, look, I have someone, let's do it. And it’s also an opportunity because there’s a lot of potential in a team.